Recruiting under Sellers off to a good start...

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Re: Recruiting under Sellers off to a good start...

Post by CCSU4-3 »

J.J. wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:24 pm I'm fine with the recruiting strategy so far.
IMO the recruiting strategy has been borderline perfect. Does that mean all, or most, of this year's freshmen will become good players? No. Could a few of them leave after their first season? Sure.

But what he's done is bring in shooters and length (or shooters WITH length!), and has made it known that he's focused on recruiting the New England preps. I also get the sense that he's recruiting to a specific style, as opposed to just throwing together the best guys he can find (like Marshall did imo).

Sellers has six veterans with significant experience. Beyond that, the 5 scholarship freshmen will have an opportunity to play significant roles, as might the two walk-ons.

The frontcourt, specifically, is interesting. Snoddy, Brown, and Dehnavi are all vastly different players with wide-ranging skill-sets. I'm very curious to see how Sellers might utilize them, and how they fit into what he's trying to do on both sides of the basketball.

Man, I can't wait for those first handful of games...specifically those against mid-majors (I don't think we will learn much in games against UConn or NC State, imo). Style, pace, defensive footprint- we are going to learn so much.
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Re: Recruiting under Sellers off to a good start...

Post by J.J. »

Yep, we won't learn anything about basketball vs. UConn or NC State, but you will learn a lot about attitude. We will be outsized on the court and the final score likely won't be close. How do they conduct themsleves on the bench and on the court when you are outmanned? As long as they aren't out hustled or outworked, I'll be OK with those games regardless of how we shoot or play defense.

Yes, the games vs. Brown, Lowell, UNH, Binghamton, and even Fordham will tell us a lot more about our basketball ID and Sellers' coaching style and strategy. Can't wait!
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Re: Recruiting under Sellers off to a good start...

Post by Skyhawkct »

I’m obviously no expert on the game but IMHO a 6’ 10” guy who can fill the middle is something we need even if he needs to work on his shot.

Back in 1999, we had a 6’ 10” center named Jeremy Bergh who gave Corsely a breather when needed and although he wasn’t the best shooter, he gave some very valuable defensive minutes under the hoop forcing opposing players to alter shots among other things.
Last edited by Skyhawkct on Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Recruiting under Sellers off to a good start...

Post by ktuck911 »

Looks like Sellers found has 6'10" guy for this fall in Arian Dehnavi from Canada. Looks like he's got a good basketball 🏀 IQ and is pretty active. Great job by Sellers. You guys will be ready to compete day one no question.

http://www.hudl.com/v/2DJP8A
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Re: Recruiting under Sellers off to a good start...

Post by CCSU4-3 »

Skyhawkct wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:21 pm I’m obviously no expert on the game but IMHO a 6’ 10” guy who can fill the middle is something we need even if he needs to work on his shot.

Back in 1999, we had a 6’ 10” center named Jeremy Bergh who gave Corsely a breather when needed and although he wasn’t the best shooter, he gave some very valuable defensive minutes under the hoop forcing opposing players to alter shots among other things.
I'd actually push back on this quite a bit. In 1999, yes you needed significant size like that. But that was 20+ years ago, and it was a very different game.

Now? Nah. Last year in the NEC there was just one player 6'10" or taller who was even a semi-rotation player (Josh Cohen from St. Francis PA) and 4 players listed at 6'9" (2 were primarily perimeter oriented, 1 was a traditional '5', and 1 was not good at all and has transferred to a D2 school).

The way the game is played, your bigs need to at least be switchable defensively. Otherwise opposing teams will just put the in the ringer with ball screens. If you can't be serviceable switching onto a guard with the ball in his hands, you can't play. Which is why teams at all levels (college, NBA) have gone more towards more athletic (and generally shorter) bigs who provide more versatility. Your NEC bigs are generally 6'7" or 6'8" and athletic. Let's take a look team-by-team:

Bryant- Hall Elisias is listed at 6'8" and is perhaps the best shot blocker in the league. Offensively he's incredibly limited, but he's switchable and a dominant rebounder.

Mount- The one team who throws significant size at you, Malik Jefferson is 6'9" and thick, and not very versatile offensively. He's also probably the best offensive rebounder in the NEC. Nana Opoku is 6'9" but thin/athletic, and one of the best rebounders in school history. He also stretches the defense.

Wagner- Nigel Jackson is 6'7" and a 3-pt shooter. Ja'Mier Fletcher is 6'7" and not particularly good. Bash Mason also brought in a 6'8" big from D2 and a 6'7" shooter.

Merrimack- Jordan Minor is a stud at 6'8"- stretches the defense a bit, one of the top rebounders in the league and protects the rim.

SFU- Mark Flagg is 6'9" and while he's not a great rim protector, he's versatile defensively and is a good passer (FWIW he's the guy Dehnavi reminds me of most). Cohen is 6'10" but has a very high IQ and GREAT touch around the rim. They have a pair of bigs (6'8" and 7'0") who never play.

SHU- 6'7" Cantavio Dutreil was the best rebounder on a rate basis last season. Latina used 6'6" Bryce Johnson at the '5' quite a bit. 6'8" Pfaffenberger is back after missing last season due to injury.

FDU- Last year, it was 6'7" Elyjah Williams who was one of those "point 5's" who did everything. He'll likely see minutes at the '4' for Northwestern this coming season. They also have 6'8" P.O. Racine who had a good freshman year. He can shoot the 3. They lost a pair of bigs (6'8" and 7'0") who never played.

Gone are the days where a 6'10", 235 lb. big man can just clog up the lane and make things difficult at the rim. Those guys still exist, but they exist on the bench. Multiple teams last year had guys who were 6'8" to 7'0" who never played because they didn't develop versatility on either side of the ball.

******I am in no way suggesting Dehnavi is some 6'10" stiff who doesn't offer other skills. I've never seen the guy play, and I'd have a difficult time reading too much into a highlight video from 2.5 years ago. I'll assume that if Sellers is bringing him in, he believes Dehnavi can play at this level, which means he has the athleticism to be switchable (or can develop it). Sellers is super smart and knows how to win in the modern game.
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Re: Recruiting under Sellers off to a good start...

Post by jcframingham »

I hate to mention what's possibly a bad omen. I think the last time we recruited a big man from Quebec (2002 I believe) he left before the season began. But hey, we went on to the dance that year and to CCSU-4's points, the big man isn't the same asset to our program that he used to be.
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Re: Recruiting under Sellers off to a good start...

Post by CCSU4-3 »

jcframingham wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:29 pm and to CCSU-4's points, the big man isn't the same asset to our program that he used to be.
Bigs are super important.

It's just that the HOW has changed quite a bit over the past two decades.
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Re: Recruiting under Sellers off to a good start...

Post by ccsuhoops »

CCSU4-3 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:49 pm
jcframingham wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:29 pm and to CCSU-4's points, the big man isn't the same asset to our program that he used to be.
Bigs are super important.

It's just that the HOW has changed quite a bit over the past two decades.
Agreed, bigs are super important, hence why we always look like 8th graders when we play big time schools. Part of me really hates the NEC for not utilizing but being around so long finally have learned it’s not for lack of trying or desire, it’s the fact that talented bigs go to bigger programs. Hope ( pray ) this kid works out because if you think about it, every time we went to the dance, ancient history I know but, we had a big.
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Re: Recruiting under Sellers off to a good start...

Post by BigBlue92 »

Everybody here is bringing up great points. It's remarkable how much the game has changed in just the past 10 years; and it's almost unrecognizable from what it was 20 years ago.
Yes, the age of the immobile big man is dead. If you can't move around the court, guard guys in the high post, low post, and even the perimeter, there's just not a spot for you in the modern game. I know one NEC coach who tells ALL of his players--including his bigs--if you can't guard every area of the court and can't develop a decent jumper (preferably a 3-point shot), you simply can't play within our offense. THAT'S the modern game.
But what if you're a big with a dominant inside game? Well, then you're probably getting Big East offers..or at least A10, etc.
So why don't we find 6'10" guys who are athletic enough to guard the paint AND perimeter and pop out to hit the 3? Well, like hoops said, those guys don't end up in the NEC.
And that's why Pat is building this thing from the outside in. Perimeter shooters. I love it.
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Re: Recruiting under Sellers off to a good start...

Post by CCSU4-3 »

BigBlue92 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:47 pm But what if you're a big with a dominant inside game? Well, then you're probably getting Big East offers..or at least A10, etc.
So why don't we find 6'10" guys who are athletic enough to guard the paint AND perimeter and pop out to hit the 3? Well, like hoops said, those guys don't end up in the NEC.
I think where *some* people may be missing the primary point here is that; this isn't about BIGS. It's about PLAYERS.

Coaches are looking for guys who check as many boxes as possible. The top programs? They want a PG who is quick, can handle, shoot, pass, take care of the basketball, defend, has some length, and has the ability to lead on the court. Are there many guys who can do all that? Of course not. Hypothetically speaking, ACC/Big Ten/Big VII/Pac 12 coaches are looking for players who can do as many of those things as possible.

At the NEC level, obviously you aren't gong to bring in a Cade Cunningham or Jalen Suggs (who check ALL the boxes). But a guy who can do most of those things but is 6'0" with shoes on? That player can become Jahlil Jenkins. Or maybe the player can do most of those things but can't really shoot (yet)? That guy could be Ramiir Dixon-Conover.

The point is; at this level, you have to give a bit. Find players who have short-comings in some areas but are really good in others. Maybe your wing is only 6'0" and not great off the bounce, but he can shoot the lights out (like SHU's Mike Sixsmith). Or doesn't do one thing great but can do a little of everything and is super competitive like Bryant's Charles Pride.

As for bigs; generally, you can't win in basketball these days without AT LEAST 3 long-range threats on the floor at one time, plus a 4th who can at least keep the defense honest. Look at NBA Champ Milwaukee Bucks...Brooke Lopez isn't the greatest '5' in the world, but he's a good 3-pt shooting big. With Giannis, who does most of his damage in the paint, you can't have a traditional big clogging the lane. It wouldn't work!! So they went out and got someone who could provide more spacing on the offense end, and *poof* they're champs. Is DeAndre Ayton a better big than Lopez? Yup! But Ayton wouldn't fit in on that team (Ayton doesn't stretch the D, but everyone else on that roster does).

Having a non-shooting big is FINE. You can win the NEC with a non-shooting big. Bryant didn't win the league but were the best team last year, and Elisias doesn't take shots outside of 12 feet. Mount St. Mary's won the title and Malik Jefferson doesn't shoot the ball outside of the paint ever. BUT, if you have a non-shooting big, and a non-shooting 4, and a non-shooting PG, you cannot have an efficient offense in 2022. In 2002? Not a big deal. Now? No freakin way.

Pat Sellers has brought in 6 new scholarship players. Just two of them, 6'6" Andre Snoddy and 6'10" Arian Dehnavi, APPEAR to not be shooters at this stage of their development. Does that mean they can't play? OF COURSE NOT. The bigger question on Dehnavi (and Jayden Brown) will be if he can be switchable defensively.

As for shooting; Sellers has plenty.

Returnees:
1. Mitchell- 37%
2. Scantlebury- 35%
3. Krishnan- 31% (36% career- but let's face it, Marshall didn't know how to use a guy like him)
4. Newkirk- 28%
5. Ayangma- 28%

New:
1. Augustin- 34% at D2 Glenville St.
2. McLaughlin- 6'6" and 3-pt shooting is his primary skill
3. Sweatman- 5'8" but supposedly he's a good shooter/scorer
4. Jayden Brown- 6'8", but at least according to recruiting analyst Adam Finkelstein, is a "skilled, mismatch big who can play inside-out".

Essentially; it'd be difficult to play a lineup with, say, Newkirk, Ayangma, and Dehnavi together, as there's just not enough shooting there (which is why Newkirk should be nothing more than a backup). But could a theoretical lineup of Scantlebury, Mitchell, Augustin, Ayangma, and Dehnavi work? Sure! Just like you could pair Snoddy with Jayden Brown, but not Dehnavi.

One of my bigger issues with Marshall was that, too often, he'd put non-shooters in a lineup together (partially because he didn't bring in enough shooters). His most frequently used lineup, according to Kenpom, had Newkirk, Ayangma, and Karrington Wallace alongside Scantlebury and Krishnan. Three guys who had 3P% below 30%? Sag those 3 defenders into the paint and dare them to beat you from the outside. Good luck getting any driving lanes or shots at the rim.
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Re: Recruiting under Sellers off to a good start...

Post by BigBlue92 »

CCSU4-3 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:04 am
BigBlue92 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:47 pm But what if you're a big with a dominant inside game? Well, then you're probably getting Big East offers..or at least A10, etc.
So why don't we find 6'10" guys who are athletic enough to guard the paint AND perimeter and pop out to hit the 3? Well, like hoops said, those guys don't end up in the NEC.
As for bigs; generally, you can't win in basketball these days without AT LEAST 3 long-range threats on the floor at one time, plus a 4th who can at least keep the defense honest. Look at NBA Champ Milwaukee Bucks...Brooke Lopez isn't the greatest '5' in the world, but he's a good 3-pt shooting big. With Giannis, who does most of his damage in the paint, you can't have a traditional big clogging the lane. It wouldn't work!! So they went out and got someone who could provide more spacing on the offense end, and *poof* they're champs. Is DeAndre Ayton a better big than Lopez? Yup! But Ayton wouldn't fit in on that team (Ayton doesn't stretch the D, but everyone else on that roster does).
As always, a spot-on analysis! I love your Bucks example. In my talks with Vin Baker it’s just amazing how that team a) is ALL in on analytics, and b) has developed every part of their offensive game around Giannis. Vin once told me that Giannis was getting so frustrated with his teammates getting in his way when he’d be trying to get to the rack. That’s when they made 2 changes. First, they went to a 5-out offense—going as far as taping out spots on the floor to teach the guys proper spacing. Then they started teaching the “longitudinal line” on fast breaks. They teach that the longitudinal line runs from basket to basket. Their players are not allowed to cross that line on fast breaks. Players must fill OUT toward the sidelines. The only way they’re permitted to cross the longitudinal line is if they run to the baseline then under the hoop almost OoB.
Sorry, I got off track with this post! Just trying to give another example of how the use of bigs has changed…and changed the game.
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Re: Recruiting under Sellers off to a good start...

Post by CCSU4-3 »

There's been a lot of talk regarding bigs, and this morning I saw this tweet from recruiting analyst Adam Finkelstein regarding prospect Dereck Lively.

"Dereck Lively is the epitome of a modern day big - mobile & bouncy 7-footer with a high-motor who protects the rim, runs the floor, can defend PnR, & spaces the floor both vertically & to the 3pt line. "

https://twitter.com/AdamFinkelstein/sta ... 63105?s=20

Of course, Lively is going to be playing for Kentucky (or some other blue blood) for one year before going to the NBA. But that's the idea even for low-majors. Except maybe those guys are 6'8", not 7'0", and maybe they do MOST of those things but not ALL. The point; modern bigs are not what they used to be.
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Re: Recruiting under Sellers off to a good start...

Post by hilltopper »

Verbal Commits has Arian Dehnavi listed as an "ERS", which is an "expected red shirt for the current season."
Does that mean he will be red shirted by Central, or, that he was red shirted for the 20-21 season?
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Re: Recruiting under Sellers off to a good start...

Post by CCSU4-3 »

hilltopper wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:31 pm Verbal Commits has Arian Dehnavi listed as an "ERS", which is an "expected red shirt for the current season."
Does that mean he will be red shirted by Central, or, that he was red shirted for the 20-21 season?
I do not know the answer to that question, but my assumption is the reference to red-shirting is from the 20-21 season.

Early in 2020 as a HS Senior, Dehnavi committed to McGill University in Montreal, one of the top Canadian basketball programs. Of course, he never played there because Canada shut down all sports due to covid.

I'd be shocked if Sellers expected Dehnavi to red-shirt this season. For one, he's over 1 year removed from High School, and #2 is that he's one of just three players on the roster who is taller than 6'7" (Jayden Brown and Ola being the others).

Verbal Commits still hasn't advanced players to the next year (i.e. Jayden Brown is still listed as a HS Senior), yet Dehnavi is listed as a freshman. I expect him to be a freshman again this season, with his full compliment of eligibility.
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Re: Recruiting under Sellers off to a good start...

Post by CCSU4-3 »

Sellers got a commitment from Abdul Momoh, a 6'7" big from The Patrick School in NJ.

https://twitter.com/SJHoopsEliteAAU/sta ... 35588?s=20

I can't find much on him. I watched a video from last September and he appears to be quite athletic for his size. Looks like he could be a rim runner and rebounder. There doesn't appear to be much to his offensive game. A late summer flier, perhaps.
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