The stat I wish I didn’t have to write and one you most definitely don’t want to read.

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RonnyRob15
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Re: The stat I wish I didn’t have to write and one you most definitely don’t want to read.

Post by RonnyRob15 »

I have no idea why you’d want to hire Pat Sellers.

Glen Miller is a better hire.
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Re: The stat I wish I didn’t have to write and one you most definitely don’t want to read.

Post by RonnyRob15 »

No offense to Tom but he isn’t an athletic director. AD is a political fundraising job, he’s an SID.
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Re: The stat I wish I didn’t have to write and one you most definitely don’t want to read.

Post by J.J. »

At this point, the next coach needs to be young and hungry. Someone who can "do more with less" The problem with that profile is every low/mid-major in the country is looking for the same guy.

RR - I'd never speak to anyone at CCSU again if they hired Glen Miller - he's absolutely a non starter. Sellers has that alumni appeal as he is a "Central guy" but not sure he would be anything other than a caretaker at this point. Names like Curren and others are good as well, but this isn't 1997 and a savior isn't walking thorough that door.

Let's be honest this job is now on par with Maine - that's not a compliment. We have nothing to separate ourselves from our peers who have many of the same institutional problems. As we have all acknowledged, the problems have been discussed ad nauseum on this board and without an influx of major $$$, we won't see any noticeable improvements in the next decade.

Can we win at the NEC in this new reality - of course we can! You can see even over the past 10 years, we were just a player or two away (along with some coaching) to be a championship contender. Our peers in this league are all just a year away from being dreadful themselves.

As for Tom P., I think he can be as good of an AD as this school has ever had. Sure, he's a SID by nature, but he's been here and knows what it takes to run this department. He know our limitations and can work within that structure, that I'm not sure any outsider can do. C.J.'s legacy will certainly be the coaches he hired - that was an outstanding accomplishment. Paul S. did a great job "professionalizing" the department, but his vision was bigger that our Administration's willingness. Bottom line is that we will be lucky if they select and Tom accepts the position!
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Re: The stat I wish I didn’t have to write and one you most definitely don’t want to read.

Post by J.J. »

staypositive wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:05 pm Here we go again with all the negativity. I've stayed off because it's been a bad season and I didn't want to see exactly what I'm seeing. These kids are struggling mentally. They care and many of them have never lost so much in their basketball careers. Yet, some of you on this site just can't help yourself with calling out players and saying things like none of them can play beyond this level. Some of you need to just stop posting because it's not constructive at all. THESE ARE YOUNG MEN! They are 18-21 year olds in a tough situation and all they get from 'adults' is this crazy, negative vibe. Some of these player CAN play at a higher level, *in the right system!* This system doesn't fit everyone. You want to talk about Krishnan? Heck yeah he can STILL play in a mid major program, one that spaces the floor and allows his to do what he does best. Just look at his performance his freshman year when surrounded by stronger, more veteran players. Check out his stats last year. Ranked 20th or so *in the country* for 3pters. He's had an off year shooting-wise but what player, at any level, doesn't struggle for a stretch. Greg has improved tremendously this season. Plays a much better all around game. When Baker is on, he's really good. All these players won't have one bit of an issue moving and playing in a higher league. Shooters can be streaky but in the right system, and around the right composition of players, they will flourish. Krishnan especially has proven that but some of you choose to only see what's going on right now. I just can't take all this calling out of players. Where's the sensitivity?!!! Easy for you all to just sit behind a laptop or phone and type all this garbage. Mentally, these kids are scraping the bottom of the barrel. I know that for a fact because you can see it in their body language. Yet, they still go out and play. No one has 'opted out' as other players have in different leagues. Maybe all the players will leave, maybe they won't but please watch what is said for the remainder of THIS season, then let the chips fall where they may. If all choose to leave, I wish them all well and yes, especially in a higher league. Enough of this negativity.
Staypositive - I agree with you 10000% that we have to keep supporting the kids!

Without a doubt every player on that team is trying and working hard. We've seen the improvement of EVERYBODY in some manner and we need to acknowledge and celebrate that. We have lots of talent and potentially more of that talent is still yet untapped.

We all want to be POSTIVE about the players, coaches, and team. But it is very difficult to reconcile that enthusiasm with the results over the last 5 seasons. IMO, the bottom line is these kids are student-athletes and their job is to represent CCSU with pride and passion. They have all done that and we should be proud of them. I hope they continue to work hard and finish their degrees and at Central.

Add in the issue of COVID and these players deserve our complete support and we want these young men to be both physically and MENTALLY healthy! As fans, we should be careful with our words and remind ourselves of what you posted. I thank you for your message.

The other reality is college coaching is a PROFESSION and regardless of how we feel about DM as a person, the results have been less than successful. I'm disappointed this hasn't worked out as many had hoped, but nothing wrong with us fans discussion our preference to start anew with a different coach. Unfortunately, that is the reality of college coaching - if you don't win, you won't be in the job long. It's not how most of us are judged in our professions, but this is not a surprise to coaches when they take jobs. Keeping your job is DIRECTLY related to the number of games you win, period.
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Re: The stat I wish I didn’t have to write and one you most definitely don’t want to read.

Post by RonnyRob15 »

J.J. wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:20 am At this point, the next coach needs to be young and hungry. Someone who can "do more with less" The problem with that profile is every low/mid-major in the country is looking for the same guy.

RR - I'd never speak to anyone at CCSU again if they hired Glen Miller - he's absolutely a non starter. Sellers has that alumni appeal as he is a "Central guy" but not sure he would be anything other than a caretaker at this point. Names like Curren and others are good as well, but this isn't 1997 and a savior isn't walking thorough that door.

Let's be honest this job is now on par with Maine - that's not a compliment. We have nothing to separate ourselves from our peers who have many of the same institutional problems. As we have all acknowledged, the problems have been discussed ad nauseum on this board and without an influx of major $$$, we won't see any noticeable improvements in the next decade.

Can we win at the NEC in this new reality - of course we can! You can see even over the past 10 years, we were just a player or two away (along with some coaching) to be a championship contender. Our peers in this league are all just a year away from being dreadful themselves.

As for Tom P., I think he can be as good of an AD as this school has ever had. Sure, he's a SID by nature, but he's been here and knows what it takes to run this department. He know our limitations and can work within that structure, that I'm not sure any outsider can do. C.J.'s legacy will certainly be the coaches he hired - that was an outstanding accomplishment. Paul S. did a great job "professionalizing" the department, but his vision was bigger that our Administration's willingness. Bottom line is that we will be lucky if they select and Tom accepts the position!
Obviously I’m not serious about Miller, but that’s about how uncreative Sellers is.

I wish Tom luck but there isn’t any way to be successful working within the structure. The current structure guarantees failure.

The only way things will ever get better is someone who can create serious change - and the stark reality is people who can do that have better options. Hell people who didn’t accomplish much of anything here have had better options.

Maine announced 100 million in facility enhancements and are in America East. Maine is a way better job than Central.
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Re: The stat I wish I didn’t have to write and one you most definitely don’t want to read.

Post by CCSU4-3 »

I don't feel comfortable talking about potential coaches until if/when Marshall is let go. But I will say; Sellers should absolutely be in the candidate pool, but there are at least a couple of people I'd call first. Sellers probably would have been a great hire had Dickenman retired back in 2010ish when the program was still rolling along solidly. To rebuild it though? Like RR said- they probably need to get more creative.
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Re: The stat I wish I didn’t have to write and one you most definitely don’t want to read.

Post by staypositive »

Thanks, JJ. Yes, coaching is a profession and is absolutely open to scrutiny, just as we are on our jobs when we don't perform up to par. There are certain expectations that when aren't met, should be discussed and rectified. What I have a BIG problem with is bringing the kids into that discussion, specifically calling them out by name then making negative comments about their play this season and where they could and should play next. As you said, they are young student athletes caught up in a bad situation. Anyone ever stop to think what THEY must be feeling? The mental toll on THEM? The shame and embarrassment THEY feel each game...because they do have feelings, too. They will find themselves in a much tougher situation if the coaches are indeed fired. All of that is going on with these kids, plus the stress of COVID, and yet some of you choose to heap more negativity on them, as if they don't have enough to deal with. Rightly state your thoughts about the coaches (grown men and their jobs) but leave the kids alone and especially stop throwing out unhelpful comments about where they should play next year. Maybe some will go D2, maybe some will stop playing, and maybe some will move to mid-major level. Who knows but why call out players and make such comments during an already tough situation. They need our support now more than ever, not bashing. Leave the kids out of it is all I'm saying.
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Re: The stat I wish I didn’t have to write and one you most definitely don’t want to read.

Post by hilltopper »

Yeah, there is no point in talking about a new coach at this time.
Do we really know that DM is bailing out? or that Central will choose not to renew? Its speculation..... unless someone has an inside source.

I think that at the end of this season there should be a change. If it causes a load of transfers than so what? Is the new coach with his new recruits going to do worse? Hey, Central has been one of the worst D1 MBB teams for quite some time. It does not have to be that way.

As far as spending money...
Donyell Marshall makes $141k per year, which is tiny even as far as mid-majors are concerned. We don't have data from other NEC coaches because they are all private schools, but compared to other public state universities, it's nothing. The schools paying less:

Alabama A&M (#342 at Kenpom)
Nicholls (#200)
SE Lousiana (#329)
Chicago St. (#356)
Idaho St. (#286)
Northwestern St. (#312)
Grambling St. (#316)
NC A&T (#299)
Southern (#296)
Arkansas Pine Bluff (#352)
Western Illinois (#304)
UNC Asheville (#212)
VMI (#173)
Eastern Washington (#126)
South Carolina St. (#354)
Tennessee Tech #328)
All those public universities pay their HC less than Central, Private schools are not required to make their payroll public. But it is not logical to assume that every private school pays more than Central. I am sure that there are many D1 private school mid majors that are strapped financially. So my point is that Central is not so far out of whack for lower echelon D1 schools.

Look at the Kenpom ratings of the schools on the list. Eastern Washington #126!!! VMI #173!!!! Nichols #200 !!!!! and that list goes on and on, in fact most of the schools on the list are higher ranked than Central, and that is with coaches that make less than DM.

Wouldn't we like to have a MBB team that is ranked around #200 in the country? Well there are coaches out there that can do that with a salary in Central's range.

Finances are bad, I am not disputing that. But, being a contender in the NEC does not have to be a pipe dream.
Maybe Central's football or baseball coach can handle a basketball team? =D>
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Re: The stat I wish I didn’t have to write and one you most definitely don’t want to read.

Post by CCSU4-3 »

As someone who spends hours writing about college basketball every week, my general thoughts on discussing players;

1) They are adults, not kids.
2) Stick to the facts/data.
3) Never use overly negative adjectives (i.e. Player X sucks).
4) Try to refrain negative attributes (i.e. "Player Y could take the next step if he can develop a reliable jump shot", as opposed to "Player Y can't shoot").

I agree that we need to support these players- these guys are going through it between covid and their coach's job situation. It's a tough spot. But also, a realistic conversation can be had.

I don't think anyone was unfair to any players on this team, at least not recently or in this thread. I assume my comment on Krishnan threw you over the edge; suggesting he's more of a low-major player, while averaging 24 mpg on a team rated #344 at Kenpom, is not negative or unfair. It's just realistic. He's a good player whose ability to knock down perimeter shots could help a team in a similar conference to the NEC.

If there were a bunch of A-10 level players on this team, they wouldn't be in last place in the NEC. That's not bashing anyone. And the fact that most of us hope the majority of these players return to CCSU is, in itself, a compliment. It's a good rotation missing a couple of pieces.
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Re: The stat I wish I didn’t have to write and one you most definitely don’t want to read.

Post by CCSU4-3 »

hilltopper wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:56 am All those public universities pay their HC less than Central, Private schools are not required to make their payroll public. But it is not logical to assume that every private school pays more than Central. I am sure that there are many D1 private school mid majors that are strapped financially.
It may be wrong (on my part) to assume Marshall makes less than most private schools, but it's not illogical.

I'd bet that Marshall makes the least amount of money of any coach in the NEC. Of course, that's just an estimated guess, as I can't back it up. But given that each school is investing significantly more money into their programs than Central is, it would make sense that they pay their coaches more.

Who could be making less? Joe Gallo signed a 4-year extension at Merrimack in November. Given that he was coming off a regular-season title, I'd bet he got a significant raise. Bashir Mason (Wagner), Glenn Braica (SFC), and Rob Krimmel (SFU) are probably on the lower end, but all three have been there awhile and have signed at least 1 contract extension.

Schools like LIU, Bryant, Sacred Heart, Merrimack, and Mount St. Mary's have really financially supported the program. I'd guess those coaches are well over $200k/year.

Anyway- sure, a coach can win with a limited budget (and salary). But that coach would win and leave immediately. Can the Athletic Department build something sustainable while having one of the lowest budgets in the D1? I'd say it's unlikely.
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Re: The stat I wish I didn’t have to write and one you most definitely don’t want to read.

Post by staypositive »

CCSU4-3, just wow. It's comments about ALL the players mentioned that threw me over the edge. What's to be gained by stating the "facts/data" at this point? What? Everyone knows this is a bad situation. Yes, some players have played poorly this season compared to previous ones but so what? It happens but is that a reason to call them out? Players feel bad, coaches are on edge about their jobs, COVID rampant...just a lot of negativity, stress and bad right now. How are these comments helpful is my constant question? What's to be gained by pointing out these kid's poor play, poor stats and then assume they are headed for far worse. Just because you can support what you say with "facts/data," what about just using a bit of common decency and refrain from it. Do these comments NEED to be stated under the circumstances? How is it helpful right now to these kids? You don't think some of them know about this site and read these comments? Where's the sensitivity and humanity right now? These are really tough times. Just Google articles on the mental toll COVID is having on college kids, then throw in all of this stuff and where do you think these kids are mentally and emotionally. Some of these kids haven't seen their families and friends in over a year! Haven't had normalcy in over a year. Been in isolation for longer than is normal for kids on a college campus. Some have had to deal with COVID themselves and all you all can focus on are basketball "facts/stats." Who gives a crap?! Focus on what matters the most right now in these trying times and that's the well-being of these YOUNG KIDS that you're calling adults in age only.
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Re: The stat I wish I didn’t have to write and one you most definitely don’t want to read.

Post by CCSU4-3 »

Am I missing something?

I dunno, man. I don't see the negativity that you see. I'm not seeing players called out for poor play or poor stats. I'm not seeing anyone assume that players are headed for "far worse".

You'd hate my blog, surely. It's filled with honest appraisals of players and teams across the Northeast Conference, both positive and negative.
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Re: The stat I wish I didn’t have to write and one you most definitely don’t want to read.

Post by staypositive »

Yes, I feel you are missing something. Ever heard the phrase "don't pour water on a drowning man?" You wouldn't do it, right? (at least I hope not. haha) That's what all of this feels like. We all know it's been a bad number of seasons. We all know some players haven't performed up to levels as before but statements like: "Maybe guys like Ayangma, Newkirk, and Olamuyiwa would struggle to find landing spots" and "Even a guy like Krishnan who would have been coveted two years ago would probably be more of a low-major option at this point" do bother me in this environment we are in. That's calling out players. They can see you are talking negatively about them specifically. Replace any of those names with other players and I would still have a problem with it. Maybe this is all true, maybe it isn't but given everything else going on with this team right now, and for the past few seasons, WHY say all of this whether it's honest opinion, facts, assessment or whatever? Maybe I'm just reading too much about the toll COVID, stress and isolation are having on people in general, and especially college kids, and want you all to be sensitive to it as well, and be careful with your words about these kids. This season just feels bigger than basketball and no one is focused more on that. It's carry on as usual. Anyway.
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Re: The stat I wish I didn’t have to write and one you most definitely don’t want to read.

Post by CCSU4-3 »

I understand where you're coming from, though I guess we disagree what constitutes as negative. My additional purpose in providing those comments was because I misunderstood a previous commenter, who I THOUGHT was suggesting that the majority of these players wouldn't be able to transfer to other D1 schools (he since clarified). I believe that one can both: a) acknowledge the difficulty of playing through a pandemic; and b) have an honest discussion of the positive/negative traits of a D1 player. It sounds like you disagree. To each their own.

Anyway; I sincerely hope you are avoiding the dozens of podcasts devoted to college sports, as well as the hundreds of sites/blogs/forums, any draft talk (NFL and NBA), and any recruiting analysis. Hell, you can watch any game and hear more negative discussion of players than what you read here (poor shot selection, struggling from the floor, bad fouls, poor season statistics, etc.)
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Re: The stat I wish I didn’t have to write and one you most definitely don’t want to read.

Post by staypositive »

I understand where you're coming from as well. You are right about the negative assessments throughout sports. Just thought we didn't have to follow suit here :). Appreciate the back and forth.
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